What is PERFECTION in Islam?

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Light Upon Light
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What is PERFECTION in Islam?

Post by Light Upon Light » Wed Nov 14, 2012 4:26 pm

Asalamulaykum Warahmatulahi Wa Barakatu,

I seek refuge in Allah from the accursed Satan ,
Bismillah Al Rahman Al Rahim

Before i start i sort of raised this topic in the chat rooms, and it was recieved with so much negative response (without me justly finishing my defence) that i was kicked out and told to "fix my iman". This deeply hurt me because i fear that if i may ever turn my knowledge into blindness from Truth this will be a great fall, and im still young too, so i accept if i may have got something wrong, though ive only got my ideas truly from the Holy Quran. How much did i correctly recieve it, God knows best.

I basically said the Prophet Muhammad {Peace be Upon him} is not utterly perfect. (i know i know at first this sounds blasphemous, let me continue)
Indeed, he had al-Insān al-Kāmil (complete in character), he was the closest human being to perfect, yet the only One True perfect being is Allah {Subhanahuwatallah}. He was perfect in the the senses achievable by a human being, but the TRUE PERFECTION that belongs only to Allah swt is the gap im merely trying to highlight [which doesnt contradict islamic belief as we dont equal muhammad pbuh to God, right?!]

He was the perfect Human Being and best of Mankind. But this does not mean that he never made some errors or do mistakes, it is the nature of Mankind doing mistakes unintentionally / intentionally. And Muhammad's {peace be upon him} mistake was only unintentional, little did he realise his mistake, when he rejected the blind man that came to him as narrated in Surah Abasa' (Chapter 80).

{80:1} The Prophet frowned and turned away.

{80:2} Because there came to him the blind man, [interrupting].

{80:3} But what would make you perceive, [O Muhammad], that perhaps he might be purified

{80:4} Or be reminded and the remembrance would benefit him?

{80:5} As for he who thinks himself without need,

{80:6} To him you give attention.

{80:7} And not upon you [is any blame] if he will not be purified.

{80:8} But as for he [the blind man] who came to you striving [for knowledge]

{80:9} While he fears [ Allah ],

{80:10} From him you are distracted.

A significance is made in these ayahs to SHOW an inside-telling that though Muhammad {Peace be Upon Him} was unaware of his small mistake (if we can call it that), Allah {subhanahuwattalh} can see, hear and judge into the hearts of everyone without Muhammad's {pbuh} knowledge! The ayah {80:3} Only Allah {Suhanahuwattallah} can percieve the full affairs of the World that even Muhammad {pbuh} couldnt. It serves as a continous proof/'reminder' that this Holy Quran is not the fabrication of Muhammad {Peace be Upon Him} because why would he make up these ayats with things only Allah swt had full knowledge about! Only then after narrating the episode of the Prophet with the Blind Man Allah {Suhanahuwattallah} then says:

{80:11} No! Indeed, these verses are a reminder;
{80:13} [It is recorded] in honored sheets,

{80:14} Exalted and purified,

That Allah {swt} perfect complete knowledge of such intricate details went beyond what Muhammad {pbuh} could immediately percieve.

He was the perfect human being. Human beings are not perfect, yet he was the GREATEST EXTENT of moral success a human being could achieve. Recognising still that there was an end in his perfection by his sense of humanity; that he wasnt flawless: flawless in the nature we percieve GOD (yet flawless to the best we percieve a HUMAN BEING). We realise the gap between PERFECTION of MAN and real PERFECTION that only belongs to the Great Creator, Allah. {subhanahuwatallah}

Reading this article, futher made understand that yes they committed mistakes though this didnt overally tarnish or defect them in anyway by the end of it through sincere REPENTANCE.


Ofcourse The Prophets were infallible (undisputed perfection) in converying their messages. However, With regard to minor sins, they had been committed by them, or by some of them. Hence the majority of scholars are of the view that they are not infallible when it comes to minor sins. But if they committed such actions they were not left to persist therein, rather Allaah pointed that out to them and they hastened to repent therefrom.

The evidence that they might commit minor sins and that they were not left to persist therein is the verses in which Allaah says of Adam (interpretation of the meaning):
“Thus did Adam disobey his Lord, so he went astray.
Then his Lord chose him, and turned to him with forgiveness, and gave him guidance”
[Ta-Ha 20:121-122]
This indicates that Adam committed sin, but he was not left to persist therein, and he repented to Allaah from that.

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“He said: ‘This is of Shaytaan’s (Satan’s) doing, verily, he is a plain misleading enemy.’

He said: ‘My Lord! Verily, I have wronged myself, so forgive me.’ Then He forgave him. Verily, He is the Oft‑Forgiving, the Most Merciful”

[al-Qasas 28:15-16]
So Moosa (peace be upon him) confessed his sin and sought forgiveness from Allaah after he (unintentionally) killed the Egyptian, and Allaah forgave him his sin.

And Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“and he [Dawood] sought forgiveness of his Lord, and he fell down prostrate and turned (to Allaah) in repentance.

So We forgave him that, and verily, for him is a near access to Us, and a good place of (final) return (Paradise)”

[Saad 38:23-24]
And our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) was rebuked by his Lord for several things that are mentioned in the Qur’aan, such as the following (interpretation of the meaning):

“O Prophet! Why do you forbid (for yourself) that which Allaah has allowed to you, seeking to please your wives? And Allaah is Oft‑Forgiving, Most Merciful”
[al-Tahreem 66:1]

This refers to the well-known story with some of his wives.
From this hadeeth it is clear that when the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) chose to ransom the prisoners, this was a decision that he made by ijtihaad after consulting his companions, and he had no revelation from Allaah concerning that.

In Suraht Abasa' (Chapter 80)This is the famous story of the great companion ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Umm Maktoom and the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) while he was preaching to one or some of the Quraysh chiefs, when Allaah rebuked him.

Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyah said in Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 4/320:

What has been narrated from the majority of scholars is that they (the Prophets) are not infallible with regard to minor sins, but they are not left to persist therein. They do not say that this does not happen under any circumstances. The first group from whom it was narrated that they are infallible in all cases, and who say that the most, are the Raafidis (Shi’ah), who say that they are infallible and protected even against forgetfulness and misunderstanding.

Understand i do not claim minor unintentional sins were allowed just because it happened to prophets, their is still some intrinsic wrongness commited, yet its rather the nature of mistakes happening even to Prophets because they were fundamentally Human.

" Sins contradict perfection and are a shortcoming." This is true if they are not accompanied by repentance, for repentance brings forgiveness of sin, and does not contradict perfection or bring blame upon a person. Rather in many cases a person may be better after repenting than he was before he fell into sin. It is well known that no Prophet committed sin but he hastened to repent and seek forgiveness. The Prophets did not persist in sin or delay repentance, for Allaah protected them from that, and after repenting they became more perfect than they were before.

With regard to mistakes in some worldly matters, This happened to several of the Prophets including our Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him). This happened with regard to various spheres of life such as medicine, agriculture, etc.

Muslim narrated in his Saheeh (6127) that Raafi’ ibn Khadeej said: The Prophet of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) came to Madeenah and found them pollinating the palm trees. He said: “What are you doing?” They said: “We always do this.” He said: “Perhaps if you do not do it, that will be better.” So they did not do it, and the harvest failed. They told him about that and he said: “I am only human. If I tell you to do something with regard to your religion, then do it, but if I tell you to do something based on my own opinion, then I am only human.” Hence it is known that the Prophets are infallible and protected from error with regard to the Revelation, so we should beware of those who cast aspersions upon the Messenger’s conveying of the Message and his laws, and say that it is his own personal opinion. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) could never do such a thing. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning):
“Nor does he speak of (his own) desire.

It is only a Revelation revealed”

[al-Najm 53:3-4]

The Standing Committee was asked: Do the Prophets and Messengers make mistakes?

They replied:

Yes, they make mistakes but Allaah does not let them persist in their mistakes, rather he points out their mistakes to them as a mercy to them and their nations, and He forgives them for their mistakes, and accepts their repentance by His Grace and Mercy, for Allaah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

However, Most Scholars agree that the Prophets were fallible with MINOR sins. Yet even those, they prayed with utmost forgiveness.
It is narrated in Hadith that when they saw The Prophet {peace be upon him} standing in prayer long nights until what he was going through physically moved his companions. They said to him: “O Messenger of Allaah! Allaah has forgiven your past and future sins.” They meant by this: “Have pity on yourself, O Messenger of Allaah! Be easy in the worship, for your feet have become swollen." And his response was: "Should I not then be a grateful servant?"
Last edited by Light Upon Light on Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: What is PERFECTION in Islam?

Post by Nisa » Wed Nov 14, 2012 7:09 pm

WaAlaikumusalam Warahmatullahi Wabarakatuh

Sister, firstly I apologise that u were deeply hurt, I'm certain it wasn't anyone's intention. Allah t'ala knows best. 

Secondly, I myself wasn't there when this incident happened and u were banned, but was shown the logs, and for the purpose of those who are interested and are reading, it started when an authentic, Sahih Hadith was posted and the following were your remarks: 
How can untrust hadiths soooo easily omg..

I might be saying Abu Hurairah isn't 100% to be trusted as a source though..

Actually a true Muslim scholar would tell you hadiths aren't 100% truthful sources..

Who's Albani? Human being..

You seriously trust Hadith word for word?
Along with other stuff that was said by u, degrading not only the narrators of the ahadith, but ppl who spent years and years studying it. It's insulting their intelligence and demeaning them. Then following the argument with "it's my reasoning", may I remind u sister, u r human too, just as the ppl u mentioned are, and a lot less knowledgable might I add. So before we say anything as such, we seek the truth. If we are learning, we don't say it with such conviction as u have. A mu'min doesn't doubt any ahadith which has been graded as sahih and authentic, nor argue whether it's true word for word. 

I'd also like to say, we r all there to learn or teach what little we know. No one looked down upon u and nor should anyone believe they are above anyone else. Our purpose is to gain further knowledge inshaAllah t'ala and apply it within our lives. And this is also what the ahadith do.

There are many other issues the details of which are not narrated in the Quran, rather they are mentioned in the Quran in general terms, and the Messenger, SallAllahu Alaihi Wasallam, explained them in detail in his Sunnah. 

Take prayer for example, it's ordered to pray in the Quran, but how to pray, we take from the sunnah of the prophet Muhammad,SallAllahu Alaihi Wasallam.. From the ahadith.. What if u were to doubt and question those ahadith too, and say "they may not be trusted word for word", as u did, how then would u pray? The Quran and Sunnah is what we go by.. Not one without the other. 
When any Sunnah is proven to be saheeh, the Muslims are agreed that it is obligatory to follow it. There may be something in the Sunnah which a person thinks appears to go against the apparent meaning of the Qur’aan and add to it, such as the Sunnah which explains the threshold of stealing at which the hadd punishment becomes due, and the Sunnah which stipulates that the married adulterer is to be stoned. This Sunnah must also be followed, according to the view of the Sahaabah and those who followed them in truth, and all the groups of Muslims. 

Adapted from Majmoo’ al-Fataawa, 19/84-86 
I pray Allah t'ala guides us all, and those whom He has guided, help them to remain upon the right path with steadfastness. Allahumma Ameen 

Your sister,
كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِتَالُ وَهُوَ كُرْهٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تَكْرَهُوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تُحِبُّوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ
"Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know"
- Quran 2:216

Light Upon Light
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Re: What is PERFECTION in Islam?

Post by Light Upon Light » Thu Nov 15, 2012 2:23 am

I admit that i was being caught up with what i wast trying to explain.
But the problem is how im communicating my idea which is being interpreted wrongly.

I will state AGAIN, i dont refute hadith and its need to be followed.
I simply believe the sources VALUE of PERFECTION is not equal to that of Quran, if you read my post, you would understand my idea comes from the fundamental fact that only God is utterly perfect.

I dont distrust hadiths, i realise still they arent word-for-word accounts and shouldnt be taken in face-value which is unique to the Quran.

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Re: What is PERFECTION in Islam?

Post by muslimguy » Sun Nov 18, 2012 3:02 pm

AssalamuAlikum Wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh,

praise be to Allah,
I dont distrust hadiths, i realise still they arent word-for-word accounts and shouldnt be taken in face-value which is unique to the Quran.
the prophet sala Allahu alaihi wa salam said: "Beware! I have been given the Qur'an and something like it, yet the time is coming when a man replete on his couch will say: Keep to the Qur'an; what you find in it to be permissible treat as permissible, and what you find in it to be prohibited treat as prohibited. Beware! The domestic ass, beasts of prey with fangs, a find belonging to confederate, unless its owner does not want it, are not permissible to you If anyone comes to some people, they must entertain him, but if they do not, he has a right to mulct them to an amount equivalent to his entertainment."

so please beware of what u saying. and if u want to read more about this article u can read it here in arabic: click here

may Allah guide us all to the right path and firm our hearts upon it. Ameen
مَنْ عَمِلَ صَالِحًا مِّن ذَكَرٍ أَوْ أُنثَى وَهُوَ مُؤْمِنٌ فَلَنُحْيِيَنَّهُ حَيَاةً طَيِّبَةً وَلَنَجْزِيَنَّهُمْ أَجْرَهُم بِأَحْسَنِ مَا كَانُواْ يَعْمَلُونَ
"Whoever does righteousness, whether male or female, while he is a believer - We will surely cause him to live a good life, and We will surely give them their reward [in the Hereafter] according to the best of what they used to do."16:97

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Re: What is PERFECTION in Islam?

Post by Light Upon Light » Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:20 pm

if you read this you'd probably understand where i was coming from:
http://www.sunniforum.com/forum/showthr ... Arguements

i wasnt exactly anti-hadith but i was sort of touching on some of the 'modernists' claims in questioning the EXTENT of reliability, nonetheless, and most importantly, i didnt ever reject hadith in total because that would be..too far.
My (non-convictive idea is that) hadiths ARENT unreliable, however theyre not AS reliable as the Quran. I thought this was something agreed upon. Do you read hadiths the same way you read the Quran?

btw if you really read my post you would have realised i quoted hadith itself to futher ellaborate on an idea...so im how would i be "anti-hadith" ?

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Re: What is PERFECTION in Islam?

Post by Nisa » Wed Nov 28, 2012 4:50 pm

Sister, let's not run around in circles pls and turn this into a lengthy debate. Whether u r "anti-Hadith" or not, comments that u have made while I myself have been present in the chatroom, have been less than appropriate, and I've posted them in the very first reply to u above.. It was a "Sahih Hadith narrated in Bukhari, therefore none of ur remarks were justified at all.

As far as ur question posed above, yes, you are correct, nothing is above Allah's word, i.e the Quran.. but pls know and bear this in mind, the Prophet, SallAllahu Alaihi Wasallam only narrated what he was told by Allah t'ala.. Not from his own accord. Therefore ANY hadith that has been authenticated as sahih, there should be no doubt upon. And Allah t'ala knows best.

كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِتَالُ وَهُوَ كُرْهٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تَكْرَهُوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تُحِبُّوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ
"Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know"
- Quran 2:216

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