The Big Bang?

Discuss about the science of Allah's creation.
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Nisa
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The Big Bang?

Post by Nisa » Fri May 06, 2011 10:18 am

The Big Bang?

by Yusuf Estes


There is a popular theory referred to as the 'Big Bang' theory. It tries to explain the existence of the universe in an evolutionary manner having an initial beginning with an immense explosion of some gases or solid mass. Some say there first was a void or a 'nothingness', or perhaps, some gases which exploded then from this everything in the universe simply began to evolve to the stage that we see now. There has never really been any solid evidence for this idea of 'something out of nothing' concept. Nor for that matter, the evolutionary theory itself.
We would like to explore the idea of creation from a purely logical standpoint using simple terminology without religious hype, emotional pre-convictions or superstitions.

What if someone called a 'scientist' tells you his 'theory' of how cars are made is like this:
A salvage yard on the south side of town blows up and all the metal pieces fly into the air and fall back down in one place forming a brand new Chevrolet Caprice automobile . . with no left over parts . . and the motor is running . .

Or what if his theory for how a chair is made is:
An explosion occurs in a forest and the trees go flying into the air and then suddenly they combine with some flying cloth to make a beautiful chair . . . and then it lands in a furniture showroom complete with matching table and lamp . . .

He further explains that:
An earthquake in California's 'Silicon Valley' causes the computer chips and circuit boards and other various parts to fall out of their boxes and off of their shelves and just come in place together as they are rolling around on the floor and form the most advanced technical computers existing on the earth? . . .

Or what of his 'Medicine Theory'? He now claims that:
A gas leak in a pharmacy warehouse causes a terrific explosion. All the different chemicals and substances just smash into each other in exactly the correct amounts to produce a miracle drug which cures everything form cancer to heart and liver disease, old age and warts? . . .

Wait . . . there's more to this one:
It is all in one formula, packaged in the bottles with labels and ready to sell with no mess left on the floor? . . .

Now after all this exploding and excitement this 'scientist' tells you of a great place to relax and have something to eat. It is his favourite place and he calls it: "Burger Blast"!
He says:
You just go in and sit down and suddenly a 'blast' from the kitchen occurs and immediately a burger lands right in front of you with all the trimmings.. just the way you like it complete with fries, a drink and even your favourite dessert? . . .

AND . . .
No one works at "Burger Blast", it just runs itself, automatically cleaning itself and as you leave it scans your billfold for a valid credit card and charges your bank account for what you have eaten? . . .

Now the question is: "Are you really going to accept any of this as 'fact'?

Of course not!

We wouldn't believe a new car is made from flying junk; chairs don't fall down from exploding trees; earthquakes do not produce computers and blasting burgers don't rain down on us from above.

Question: So how come we don't challenge a theory of something coming from nothing and then colliding in the cosmos to make the universe? Is it because of its tremendous magnitude that we have so little comprehension about it, that we are willing to accept any theory from a few telescope 'peeping Toms' to tell us that it came from 'nothingness'? Or just some gases colliding and then. . . 'Poof'!? Instant Universe? How?

Let us now come to our main subject:

Creation or Explosion?

We can turn our attention to the earth and the heavens and make observations on our own without a 'genius' scientist telling us what we are seeing.
And then the idea that nothing is sustaining the heavens and the earth! - 'It just runs itself'? How?
Think about the stars, the sun, the moon and the countless solar systems and galaxies in the universe.
Who or What created them in the first place? They continue to function and move with the utmost precision and accuracy.
Who does this? Who keeps them gliding along on their courses and orbits preordained for them?

Facts about Origin Of the Earth & Geology

If you combine all this and you combine all those statements that are being made in the Qur'an in terms that relate to the earth and the formation of the earth and science in general, you can basically say that statements made there in many ways are true. They can now be confirmed by scientific methods, and in a way you can say that the Qur'an is a simple science text book for the simple man, and that many of the statements made in there at that time could not be proven but that modern scientific methods are now in a position to prove what Muhammad (saws) said 1400 years ago." (statement made by: Professor Alfred Kroner after being presented with many scientific facts in the Qur'an)

Allah confirms in His Book that:

"This is no less than reminder to (all), the worlds. And you shall certainly know the truth of it all after a while". (Qur'an 38:87-88)




Source: http://www.scienceislam.com
كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِتَالُ وَهُوَ كُرْهٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تَكْرَهُوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تُحِبُّوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ
"Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know"
- Quran 2:216

iSilurian
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:13 pm

Re: The Big Bang?

Post by iSilurian » Sun May 08, 2011 7:18 pm

"There is a popular theory referred to as the 'Big Bang' theory. There has never really been any solid evidence for this idea of 'something out of nothing' concept. Nor for that matter, the evolutionary theory itself."

as a scientist, i beg to differ. you should look up the big bang evidence with relation to the doppler effect and redshift, as well as WMAP photos. In regards to biological evolution, you can look up the fossil succession, comparative anatomy and ERVs and how each of them have complimentary phylogenetic trees.
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Now the question is: "Are you really going to accept any of this as 'fact'?

what if, we the scientists were to say that...these complex systems are so so so complex, that they can do fancy things like...water freezing and forming a snowflake, or... a baby being so complex that after birth, on its own it can grow into an adult. or... minerals with such complex traits that they can build themselves and grow into complex perfectly angled crystalline structures on their own? These things happen all the time in nature, we can see them happening. so why is it so hard to believe that a human...who has such a complex body, could do something so simple such as... having their DNA mutate to increased bone density**? or...having their DNA change for allowance of immunity to HIV*? thankfully, just for those who dont think that such complex beings could do such simple things...thankfully we have tools that can allow us to see it occur with our own eyes. and we can show eachother.

* = Samson M, Libert F, Doranz BJ, Rucker J, Liesnard C, Farber CM, Saragosti S, Lapoumeroulie C, Cognaux J, Forceille C, Muyldermans G, Verhofstede C, Burtonboy G, Georges M, Imai T, Rana S, Yi Y, Smyth RJ, Collman RG, Doms RW, Vassart G, Parmentier M (August 1996). "Resistance to HIV-1 infection in caucasian individuals bearing mutant alleles of the CCR-5 chemokine receptor gene". Nature 382

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/8751444

** = Boyden LM, Mao J, Belsky J, et al. (2002). "High bone density due to a mutation in LDL-receptor-related protein 5.". N. Engl. J. Med. 346

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12015390


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"" Creation or Explosion? ""

its not even an "explosion", its an expanse of space time. there is nothing explosive about it.
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Facts about Origin Of the Earth & Geology


thankfully im a geologist, the formation of the earth also supports the concept of the big bang. the oldest rocks on earth are ultramafic and have melting and cooling temperatures way higher than any temperature that exists today. What this means is, our earth started out as a ball of hot magma, much like our mantle. far hotter than the earth is today.

Not only that but we can use the moon to assist us with understanding our solar system as well.

the rocks on the moon are Hadean in age (4 billion years old). The moon as we can see is covered in craters (from asteroids and meteorites that formed from dibree from previous supernova, prior to gravity pulling it together to form the moon and planets). Ok, so this shows us how our early earth had a violent, high temperature, high impact prone formation. which is exactly what we would expect to find had the universe been formed by the big bang.
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"" Allah confirms in His Book that: ""
"""This is no less than reminder to (all), the worlds. And you shall certainly know the truth of it all after a while""". (Qur'an 38:87-88)

I am a firm believer in Allah, but what youre doing here is not supporting Allah, youre trying to defy our knowledge of HIS work.

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Source: myself

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Nisa
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Re: The Big Bang?

Post by Nisa » Mon May 09, 2011 10:00 am

Thank-you for your comments.

The actual article was not meant to dispute or refute the theory, but in actual fact an answer to those who dont believe in Allah and dont believe that the universe is a creation of Allah.

"I am a firm believer in Allah, but what youre doing here is not supporting Allah, youre trying to defy our knowledge of HIS work".
Kindly, keep comments like this to yourself as you have no authority to judge me and my intentions!

Jazakallah khairan
كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِتَالُ وَهُوَ كُرْهٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تَكْرَهُوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تُحِبُّوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ
"Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know"
- Quran 2:216

iSilurian
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:13 pm

Re: The Big Bang?

Post by iSilurian » Mon May 09, 2011 11:29 pm

"There has never really been any solid evidence for this idea of 'something out of nothing' concept. Nor for that matter, the evolutionary theory itself."

"What if someone called a 'scientist' tells you his 'theory' of how cars are made is like this:
A salvage yard on the south side of town blows up and all the metal pieces fly into the air and fall back down in one place forming a brand new Chevrolet Caprice automobile . . with no left over parts . . and the motor is running . ."

"Question: So how come we don't challenge a theory of something coming from nothing and then colliding in the cosmos to make the universe?"

"Creation or Explosion?"


and then you tell me "The actual article was not meant to dispute or refute the theory,"

these comments you have made are clearly insults toward scientists and the theory itself.

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Nisa
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Joined: Mon Apr 18, 2011 7:28 am

Re: The Big Bang?

Post by Nisa » Tue May 10, 2011 11:55 am

Please read the article again and kindly dont take things out of context.

The gist of the article is to say that Allah runs all things, hence the "something out of nothing" statements in the article.

However unpleasant to you, It still does not justify your untrue and judgmental remark at the end towards me.

If you still have a grievance or complaint, i suggest you take it up with the author of the article and give him your scientific facts.

I'd like to end this petty arguing with a hadith that i read, in hope that if the hadith is authentic, Allah grants me with a house in Jannah, Ameen
ISilurian, Oh "firm believer in Allah", i suggest you do the same! :D

Abu Umamah Al-Bahili (May Allah be pleased with him) reported: The Messenger of Allah (PBUH) said,

"I guarantee a house in Jannah for one who gives up arguing, even if he is in the right; and I guarantee a home in the middle of Jannah for one who abandons lying even for the sake of fun; and I guarantee a house in the highest part of Jannahfor one who has good manners.''[Abu Dawud]

Jazakallah khairan
Nisa Abdul-Qayum
كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِتَالُ وَهُوَ كُرْهٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تَكْرَهُوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تُحِبُّوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ
"Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know"
- Quran 2:216

iSilurian
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Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:13 pm

Re: The Big Bang?

Post by iSilurian » Tue May 10, 2011 5:45 pm

"Please read the article again and kindly dont take things out of context.

The gist of the article is to say that Allah runs all things, hence the "something out of nothing" statements in the article."

The guy who wrote the article does take stabs at science, with a handful of his statements.

for example...

"There has never really been any solid evidence for this idea of 'something out of nothing' concept. Nor for that matter, the evolutionary theory itself."

with this alone, youre promoting this misfigured strawman of a concept.

outside of that

"
The gist of the article is to say that Allah runs all things, hence the "something out of nothing" statements in the article."

this i agree with, but the author doesnt stop at this. This isnt an attack on you, but rather what youre promoting. nor is this an argument, its just an analysis of again...what you are promoting (The Big Bang by Yusuf Estes).

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Nisa
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Re: The Big Bang?

Post by Nisa » Tue May 10, 2011 6:21 pm

"This isnt an attack on you, but rather what youre promoting"..

Lets see in your previous statements above shall we?

- "I am a firm believer in Allah, but what youre doing here is not supporting Allah, youre trying to defy our knowledge of HIS work."

- "these comments you have made are clearly insults toward scientists and the theory itself." ( please note the word "you")

Seems pretty personal to me!

Please do not expect me to dignify you with an answer anymore.

Jazakallah Khairan

Nisa Abdul-Qayum
كُتِبَ عَلَيْكُمُ الْقِتَالُ وَهُوَ كُرْهٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تَكْرَهُوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ خَيْرٌ لَّكُمْ وَعَسَىٰ أَن تُحِبُّوا شَيْئًا وَهُوَ شَرٌّ لَّكُمْ وَاللَّهُ يَعْلَمُ وَأَنتُمْ لَا تَعْلَمُونَ
"Jihad (holy fighting in Allah's Cause) is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike a thing which is good for you and that you like a thing which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know"
- Quran 2:216

iSilurian
Posts: 5
Joined: Sat Apr 02, 2011 5:13 pm

Re: The Big Bang?

Post by iSilurian » Tue May 10, 2011 6:34 pm

ok yea, and now that i see it is...(The Big Bang by Yusuf Estes) i will say this is a statement against he because he is the one who said it, not you. although youre promoting it.

Etativel
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Joined: Fri Feb 18, 2011 8:56 pm

Re: The Big Bang?

Post by Etativel » Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:12 am

Guys ... Allah creates in many ways ... they say that big bang was out of nothing initially there was dot called the singularity, in mathematical terms, it had zero volume and infinite density. Who created this unite of creation they don't know so in order to remove any intelligent agent from the picture they made up multiverse theory which are ridiculous but until that singularity and big bang we have a very good evidence ...

For us its clear Allah created it ... Allah said Be and every thing was !!! out of nothing... just the that Allah said BE! and it was

Do not the Unbelievers see that the heavens and the earth were joined together (as one unit of creation), before we clove them asunder? We made from water every living thing. Will they not then believe? HQ Quran 21 30

TheAtheist
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Re: The Big Bang?

Post by TheAtheist » Wed Aug 03, 2011 1:06 pm

Enough of the mutual admiration society.

Now for some evolution theory and science.

No one says that evolution happened by an explosion in a car yard or a forest.

It should be likened to an explosion in a car yard or forest and someone sets out to make a car or a chair.

He gathers parts together like two sticks and sits on them – not very comfortable or sturdy so another stick is added which makes it more stable. And so on until a chair is made that is how evolution works.

Evolution has been likened to winning the lottery 10 times in a row, This sounds impossible until you consider it over a billion years and if you hold a lottery every day then in one billion years you are likely to win the lottery ten times in a row.

As for the big bang no one has mentioned the term something from nothing. The truth is science just does not know but we keep looking as soon as anyone is happy with the answer “Allah did it” then mankind should stop exploring.

You are also hell bent on destroying the big bang theory – until someone comes up with a better theory with provable observations I am sure science will consider it. Until then disproving the big bang theory does not prove any other theory.

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